tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN April 30, 2013 10:00pm-11:00pm EDT
finally, you know i'm a fan of twitter and i love to hear your tweets. there's something new for tomorrow. it's called "dear piers." sound off to me and i get a chance to reply. send your tweets to to @piersmorgan. we'll start responding in tomorrow night's show. that's all for now, anderson cooper starts right now. >> hey, welcome to the program. this is a special edition of "360." i'm anderson cooper. if you caught the program last night, welcome back. i'll be joined throughout this hour at this table with senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin and every night a different guest, a special guest will also join us in our fifth chair, someone with a perspective that will make the conversation that much more interesting. we'll tell you who tonight's special guest is by tweeting
with hash tag ac360. now he's saying he needs more evidence in taking plenty of heat for it. the question is should the u.s. intervene and how? a new word there have been talks on the possibility, just the possibility, of taking the death penalty for the young suspect off the table. and later, catherine zeta jones battling bipolar ii disorder. also jason collins coming out being the first openly gay athlete. firsthand knowledge of what that is like a major hollywood star is also becoming a major player in the world of politics. we begin, though, with syria. some things we know. the regime has murdered tens of thousands of people in the last few years. president obama said that the use of those weapons by the
regime would be a red line, a game-changer. there's evidence that the nerve gas, sarin, has been used. in a press conference today, president obama said he wants more information. it also drew attention that there aren't many schismimple or easy options. you say something must be done? >> yes, and so do many. so do the israelis so do the turks, so do the brits and the french. when you establish a red line, then you have to do something about it. you're talking, again, about the highest crime under international law if weapons of mass destruction are being deployed. here's the thing, in diplo speak, a red line means military action. it's not official, but that's how it is understood. so today, with all the caveats that he's been saying that he needs the evidence he needs to be absolutely sure before he commits to any kind of action. two things he said even without weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons, sarin, 70,000 people have been killed.
even that obviously, is a massive disaster. he also then said that he has asked his military to draw up options. he did last year he and hillary clinton all were for arming the rebels and doing extra things. tonight, the "washington post" is considering arming the repbels in some form or fashion. that includes some sort of private leaping that secretary kerry has been talking about all of that, as well. >> do you think it was a mistake to draw a red line? after you draw it, then you have to do something. >> i think it was a mistake to draw the red line, particularly if he doesn't intend to enforce it. i think it was the wrong metric in the first place. the mere fact that syria has the fourth largest chemical weapons cache in the entire world meant that that was always going to be a national security threat to
the united states should the wrong people get their hands on it! why is that a national security threat to the united states? they've -- >> that is a direct, national security threat to the united states. actually, the whole world. >> so it's not the current syrian government it's the rebels that are a security threat? >> the chemical weapons that might fall into the hands of these rebels which makes me nervous. if there's clearly a threat on the other hand -- >> there's also no guarantee if you intervene and who knows what government comes into place afterward. >> senator mccain shrugged it off last night. but the pentagon did tell the white house it would take 75,000 troops to secure those weapons. >> let's bring in aaron david miller miller distinguished scholar at the wilson center. was it a mistake for president obama to draw a red line like this? >> you're a president. you're asked over the course of the last year what happens if
syrians deploy chemical weapons. you're going to say something cig niche cant. use the word game-changer. use the word red line. the problem is it turned pink very quickly. if the gap between rhetoric and action is so large that it swallows up with remains of american credibility, the president has a significant problem. and, second the reality is asaad has introduced these weapons incrementally. even surface-to-surface missiles. now he's doing precisely the same thing with cw. >> what is cw? >> chemical weapons. >> chemical weapons. >> okay. >> sorry. in an effort to impose some kind of cost. we're coming out of the two longest wars in american history where the standard for victory was never could we win, but when could we leave? and the idea of getting into these conflicts where military
power can be very effective, but it must be related to the end state. but it's a lot easier than getting out. so obama's got a real problem. >> last night, you were on the show and went head-to-head on this question. have we learned the lessons of iraq? >> i think one can over-correct. iraq was a hunt for weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist. an attempt to prove a negative. they didn't exist. here sadham hussein, everybody knows he has them. >> in a country that has a lot of different sectarian -- >> but you know what, you asked about the bad guys. excuse me the bad guys according to the united states is the asaad regime. they're using them right now. the president has said over and over again, asaad must step down. in order for there to be a political resolution to this the entire community is committed to that.
>> aaron, let's say we decide to make some sort of effort whether it's through proxies or through ourselves, how do we know if we go on? what will victory look like? >> jeff the removal of the asaads is only phase i. after phase i, the real struggle begins. in the end, it's about ownership. whatever this president does on syria, and i suspect he will do something, most likely, not direct attacks against leadership or military. it's not a no-fly zone. but probably the provision, for the first time in two years, of lethal assistance to rebel groups that are vetted or to the degree that we can vet them. and that is the lowest cost lowest common denominator. >> he's talking about arming the rebels. it's not brain surgery.
there is a weapons embargo on syria right now. that means the walgt is on asaad's side. and it also means that the really bad guys the al-qaida-affiliated are getting their weapons, anyway. >> you're confident about -- >> i'm not confident about anything except that, as you know, this cannot continue. >> what about benghazi? >> it's not the same. i know people are trying to draw that same lesson and i know this business about ownership. the united states did not break syria, therefore the united states does not own syria. syria is broken. you could potentially shorten
this war by makeing it a fairer fight. i fully understand the united states has had enough of this. and i'll tell you why. there's a real wmd issue with north north korea or iran. the president of the united states of america is talking about a red line. the others are going to be watching. aaron said that's not in the cards right now. >> if you're looking at securing chemical weapon sites, you cannot do that from the air. you cannot just bomb these sites, isn't that right, aaron? you need to physically take over these sites. >> let me push christian a on this point. if you want to empower the opposition and weaken the asaads you are not going to be able to do it with the kinds of
limited lethal assistance that we're prepared to provide. if i took your point to its logical conclusion what i would do is identify the fact that the overthrow is a vital national interest. the president has said that. the president of the united states has said that. >> then if that's the case i would craft a military strategy around that objective. i'm not pushing for this because i think going to war with syria with no end sfattate is a prescription for precisely colin powell's notion. no one is talking about boots on the ground. >> you know that they did it in
kosovo kosavoe and finally, the united states of america and great britain led a non-u.n. coalition and they bombed the hell out of the positions and, indeed, the heavy weapons and the al bane yan albanians. they said we're leaving but we're going to come back because we know we're going to come back when these people are gone. and, today, they're free independent, loves america, just struck a deal with serbia, its mortal enemy. >> next we're going to introduce talented actors passionate act vis who has become crucially involved in the world of acting. we'll get you up to date on the latest investigation. also another angle that hasn't really been covered. those who say that the attack is evidence that america should back away from immigration reform. we'll talk about it ahead.
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including how this has been part of the act over immigration reform. and our fifth chair, welcome iva langoria. you know her from "desperate housewives housewives" she has a foundation, the list goes on and on. she's a lady of many, many talents. we're very happy that she is here. where were you when you heard about the boston bombings? >> oh gosh, where was i? i was home. and i couldn't believe it. i was almost at the same place i was when i heard about 9/ 1. >> really? >> yeah. i have friends in boston and so many actors are shooting movie ins boston right now. and i just thought this can't be true. >> yeah there's so much now in the investigation, i do want to bring in joe johns who has the latest on the investigation. first of all, a fingerprint? >> that's about all we know. a fingerprint found on a
fragment of one of the bombs, we believe. and authorities have been trying to figure out whose fingerprint it is. a tantalizing clue, apparently. but they don't know. so essentially, what they've done is gone around and tried to get fingerprint samples from a number of individuals they've talked to to try to rule them in or rule them out. ooerlt either way, no more information. >> yesterday, it reported a female dna revealed on the device. also joe, you've been reporting on moves by the attorney by the new defense attorney to possibly try to get the death penalty off the table? >> absolutely. but, right now, it's about the two sides making very preliminary contacts that happen at the beginning of any death penalty-eligible case. each side wants something, we're told the justice department for example, wants to talk to this suspect to try to get more information. what does he know? when does he know? who did he meet with?
the defense team wants to make a deal even though the justice department has not said either way is going to pursue the death penalty. we're told preliminary talks are underway. nobody is ready to make any deals. we're told two sides have talked. the justice department says it's not accurate. >> i want to bring in jeffrey toobin. the list of clients she has is a rose galley and despicable. >> judy clark is a legend. this woman is extraordinary. when you look at the list of the worst criminals of the last 20 years, the unibomber, the 9/11 figure the guy who bombed the atlanta olympics and jared jared loftner from tucson and the gabby giffords shooting. >> so how does she do it?
>> it's two things. one is working with the government and figuring out the route to a deal that leads to life in prison. negotiation. she is brilliant at that. the other thing, if negotiations fail is to research the life of your client in such a way that a jury will not impose the death penalty. mitigating evidence. yes, they're guilty of this crime. but you have to see them as a complete person. you have to see the influences that formed them. those are the two general categories. >> one thing i read that's fascinating is her first step convincing her clients that they can have a life in prison. that there's a reason to live in a tiny cell for the rest of their lives. that's something they should be aiming for. >> yes, that was fascinating. and to get them to be willing to tell the truth. so i think in this case with the younger brother who is in custody, hopefully, what this deal means is that they will be able to get more information from him.
>> will they take that deal? >> i don't know. it will certainly be a tough call thchlt is not going to be a decision made by the u.s. attorney or the line prosecutors. it is a very major decision by the department of justice, whether you want to push this case all the way, given its horror and sanenessness or do you want to make a deal that will make him a source of information about any possible co-conspirators. >> i don't know how the procedure would work but if he did not get the death penalty and got a life sentence would we know much more about what happened? >> that's the great advantage that the defense has. if you don't make a deal the source of information is cut off potentially forever. if they could make a deal now, he could potentially provide some information.
>> immigration reform is the backdrop to this. senator marco rubio says the terrorist attack on boston has no bearing on the immigration debate. now we're hearing them say let's slow down on this. is that a concern? >> it's a big concern. i think it's ironic that people are going to ignore the fact that immigration reform will make this country safer. all of the border security measures that are in the proposals will guarantee a safer border. so you know reflecting on it it will actually make it safer. i think the american people are a little smarter than using a horrible trajs day like this to think there will be an increase in zena phobia of some sort. >> don't you think it is kind of separate? it's like apples and oranges. on the one hand you're talking about legal residents.
and there's always been the potential and has been crimes committed by legal residents. >> also if you do if you can't state that this is the problem of immigration, then you negate costa rican immigrants who went in and saved people. >> this is a typical american story. we can track people better who come into this country. >> isn't this just transparent politics? i mean doesn't this just excuse for people who don't like obama, who don't like this immigration bill anyway? just to find a hook to find two
additional students who have been arrested and detained. >> from kazakhstan. >> from kazakhstan. and i think we ask our immigration system to do a lot. this is an 844 page bill. let's take a pause and make sure that this bill does keep track of entry and exit. i'm for comprehensive reform. >> congress has been on a reform since 1986. the idea that a month delay, the only reason to delay this bill is to kill it. period. >> there's so much momentum behind it right now. i know today, they were talking about the houses about piecemealing it.
whether it's securing the border or a temporary guest worker program or a path way to citizenship and legalization, they are all intracattily tied. >> it needs to be done. and the hope of the senate from mr. rubio and mr. mccain what i'm saying is there is a recess. they're hope right now listening to their constituents. when they come back they need to address those concerns very forthrightly. it won't pass the house, if they don't. >> do you have the juice to keep
pushing it? >> it's an economic imperative. people kind of go, yes, yes, this makes sense. >> and the republican party has to decide whether it wants to write off the fastest growing, most prosperous immigrant group. 90% of black people vote across the republican party. >> for the country, it's a moral and economic imperative. >> for the country, it's an existential dilemma. this is a nation of immigrants. >> certainly, among conservatives, there are tremendous battles. just yesterday, he's gotten on
board for immigration reform. you're seeing conserve tis really build momentum. >> and for the first time you have the chamber of commerce and labor agreeing to work together on this. >> we've got to leave there. joe johns, appreciate your reporting there. the athlete who broke a barrier for being first to come out as gay. we'll talk about the power and the cost of being in the pub like eye. we'll be right back.
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welcome back. you're looking at a live shot at wrigley field. jason collins has decided to go public with the fact that he's gay. actress catherine zeta jones is back in a medical facility for bipolar ii disorder facing head-on the kind of stigma that comes with mental illness in this country. we'll be back on shortly to talk about what bipolar disorder ii is. to make that decision to confront something that you are wrestling with is all the more difficult -- it's hard for everybody, but for somebody in the public eye -- >> yeah, sometimes we don't have a choice. you're in the pub like eye, sometimes it's better to get in front of it.
i love that she says she's doing it proactively. i applaud her because she is you know putting her health and taking responsibility for her health and really removing the stigma for anybody who has a mental illness. especially now that mental illness is such a hot topic and being, you know let's not talk about it and deal with it. >> the fact that there is a cig that is extraordinary. >> more people googled the symptom than did her name. it really did something positive that she announced she had bipolar. >> we're going to hear from drew about what it was, but i didn't know the difference between bipolar i and ii. >> what is the difference? she says she has bipolar ii. >> listen guys the way you're framing what catherine zeta jones here is exactly right.
anderson this is going to have an untold benefit. this is an extraordinary common condition. her being hospitalized is as matter of fact as a diabetic being hospitalized. >> moods fluctuate from very, very high to very, very low in a varied degree of time pattern. she has bye polar ii where people may be hyper active and seem to have not much energy and a normal state. people are actually with bipolar are more likely to kill themselves in a manic state. people think about depression as being a dangerous illness.
these people fluctuate. >> isn't it also the case that with bipolar ii you see self medicating can exacerbate the problem problem. >> drew she was diagnosed when she was 41. is it something she develops with later in life? people often don't have it. people are diagnosing and coming to help more readily. i wish they would call the medical facility what it is, a hocht. it's to be commended. drchlt drew talked about stress and how it's brought on.
michael douglas being diagnosed and having throat cancer and dreadful stress and would he survive or not. people who know her say she's a great mother. you've worked with her. she's a great mother and a great couple. >> jason collins decision coming forward, a decision he didn't have to make. he wasn't being pushed into it through some magazine. >> billy jean king said yesterday. you know the world of basketball pretty well. what do you think the fan's reaction is going to be. it's going to be exponential in the home mo phobia in it.
when you have bryant and shaq saying bravo, we stand behind you and with you. you know kids look up to these guys. sports arenas can be pretty tough areas. >> i pray that he gets picked up. the big thing is he's an active player. he is a free agent. >> at this point, he's going to be a draw. to be pretty cynical, i think, you know somebody is going to want him on his team because people are going to want to see this guy. he's now a big celebrity. and i actually think -- yeah i don't want to be too cynical and suggest he's done this to extend his career. but i think he probably has extended his career. >> i saw it the opposite way where sometimes a tim teebow who is a very opposing figure. it's hard to be on a team.
you were around the spurs for a long time, did you see any gay players? >> no, i did not. and the spurs are one of the most well-run team ins the league. >> what's amazing to me about jason collins, though and, drew you can weigh in on this, too, he's what? 34 years old, i think? and he doesn't really know many gay people. it wasn't even like he had parter ins that he was trying to you know, keep out of the pub like eye. he was alone. he would say he would go back to his own and pet his german shepherd. it's sad that it's taken him this long. people under the age of 34 say so what? this poor man didn't have a normal love relationship because
he was afraid of this? >> it is amazing, the difference i'm 45 or 46 you meet young kids today and they're just not the same -- it's just completely different. >> in israel they are being openly gay in every way. >> you may think young people are really tolerant. >> it also depends on cultural issues. an american soccer player playing in england came out and femt he had to drop off the team and retire when he came out. hopefully, he's thinking about going back.
>> you know, i have a question for you. as our residents talk to the expert is it difficult, though to control that zone of privacy? jason collins has said i've come out, but i'm going to be a private person. catherine zeta jones, she's going to treat her bipolar, but she wants it to be the end of the story. >> and i hope we're respectful of it as the public. when you live in the public eye public opinion matters. sometimes we walk that fine line. if you give people the truth and you say this is what's happening, then there's less of a bounty for gossip. >> is that true? or do you just feed the beast. if you give people a little do you make people interested? or do you keep people --
>> i think in jason collins case, you take away the gotchya. >> you were famous before. you have to make the decision for me it was a decision of do i want my partner to be subjected to this? do i want mainstream magazines to be covering what i'm seeing. those are decisions you have to make. for me ultimately it's the decision of what's more important is that i'm happy and that i said the message that people who are gay can become happy and successful. for me that's what overrode any personal convenience. my message to him is it makes
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there is this category of prisonr prisonprison whichp prison which is there is not enoughp enough evidenceenough evidence to enough evidence to have a military tribunal. notp not enoughnot enough evidence to prove for al-qaida. wewe can'tp we can't just keep thisp open open indefinitely, but he's neverr neverneverp never addressednever addressed what you do with thatrthatp that categoryrthat categoryp that category of prisoner. > therer >> there arep >> there are >> there are 86 that have been cleared to go. >> there werer >> there weretp >> there were 180 >> there were 180 detainees at getmo. 8686 have been cleared. p >> and diane>> and diane finestein has been askedrasked top asked toasked to really examine this and dop do somethingdo something to let
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the united states this is going to be the future work force of our country. we have to make sure that we bridge that educational gap. and so my foundation focuses on programs to help the women in my community reach their fullest educational potential and also transition them into entrepreneurial programs. >> you're a great example. you're getting your master's? >> yes, i graduate in two weeks. >> join us again tomorrow night, we'll be doing the same thing. we have a special guest. we'll tell you who it is then. we'll leave you with a look at the day in pictures in about 60 seconds. take a look. ♪ >> these incredible high-resolution pictures show an